Free Will Salvation?
STATEMENT ON SALVATION BY FREE WILL
Let's just say that at one point you were a faithful Christian, then turned your back on teachings and disregarded and did the opposite of what Jesus asked of us. Once saved, always saved makes no sense simply for this reason. You can indeed lose your salvation, which is made known by your fruits. Or another way to phrase it would be the outcomes of your choices, do they lead to good or bad results. Jesus says he is the vine, and we are the branches. Who remains in him will bear great fruit. Therefore so long as you remain in him, (aka adhere to his teachings) you will likely begin to bear fruit. Good fruit, good product of your choice to adhere to the will of God. Remember it is also written throughout the Old Testament that God values Obedience (to his will I would argue) over Sacrifice, which goes hand in hand with this discussion. Also keep in mind that we cannot possibly EARN salvation, there is NOTHING that we can do as humans to possibly make up for our fallen nature, it is purely by the grace of God. When we say faith is a gift, it truly is. He has given the road map and told us the path to chose that leads to true freedom, but it is up to us to live it out.
- Anonymous
RESPONSE
This statement is riddled with unscriptural assertions. Let me explain what I mean:
Let's just say that at one point you were a faithful Christian, then turned your back on teachings and disregarded and did the opposite of what Jesus asked of us.
Ok. If one was a truly a "faithful" Christian, then they had faith. It follows that they were born again because faith is a fruit of the indwelling Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22) While it is true that turning your back on what Jesus asks us to do is sin, nevertheless all believers struggle with remaining sin (I John 1:8). What’s more, Christ died to accomplish the removal of our sins by nailing them to his cross. How then can sin separate us from the eternally saving love of God if Christ's sacrifice on behalf of his people is unassailable? (Romans 8:38-39) I do not doubt that there are those who "play church" and who end up departing because they were never sincere in their profession to begin with. After all. men are by nature liars, so this observation should come as no surprise to any bible believing Christian. Still there are those who depart who truly are God's people. They are confounded by the world. They are eternally saved by what Christ did for them none-the-less, even though their temporal lives fall into ruin, as Lot’s did.
Once saved, always saved makes no sense simply for this reason.
Jesus taught, "I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish." (John 10:28) You're suggesting that this means, “I give unto them the potential for getting eternal life but they may still perish." This is just completely contrary to the Lord's teaching.
You can indeed lose your salvation, which is made known by your fruits. Or another way to phrase it would be the outcomes of your choices, do they lead to good or bad results.
Is man saved by what HE does or is he saved by what CHRIST does? Stated another way, are we made righteous by our obedience or "by the obedience of one" - the Lord Jesus Christ? (Romans 5:19) Answer that correctly and you've taken a step toward understanding who is responsible for one's eternal salvation. It ain't us. (Titus 3:5)
Jesus says he is the vine, and we are the branches. Who remains in him will bear great fruit. Therefore so long as you remain in him, (aka adhere to his teachings) you will likely begin to bear fruit. Good fruit, good product of your choice to adhere to the will of God.
Correct. The Lord’s discourse in John 15 has respect to one's FRUIT BEARING, not to how one obtains eternal life. All such fruit bearing falls into the category of "works of righteousness" which Paul explicitly excludes from having any participatory part in the work whereby we are eternally saved (Titus 3:5). So if we take John 15 and apply it to eternal salvation, we are wrestling that passage out of the context of FRUIT BEARING. The result is wrong soteriological conclusions that contradict the bible’s teaching on eternal salvation. The truth is that good works are the proper produce of one who is already in possession of eternal life. It is the fruit, not the root.
Remember, it is also written throughout the Old Testament that God values Obedience (to his will I would argue) over Sacrifice, which goes hand in hand with this discussion.
Right. But whose obedience makes God's people righteous before him where eternal salvation is concerned? Is it our obedience or Christ's obedience? (Romans 5:19)
Also keep in mind that we cannot possibly EARN salvation, there is NOTHING that we can do as humans to possibly make up for our fallen nature, it is purely by the grace of God.
I understand that you want to say this, but when you turn around and say that we must bear fruit in order to have eternal life, you contradict yourself. FRUIT BEARING requires works of righteousness, does it not? And if this is required to get salvation, then it's required to earn or obtain salvation. There's just no two ways around that issue.
When we say faith is a gift, it truly is.
True enough. (Philippians 1:29) At least we agree on that. You might ask yourself this, though, do all men have faith? Paul says that they do not (II Thessalonians 3:2), and this has theological implications where the utility of faith is concerned. More on that follows…
It ultimately is a CHOICE, God has given us free will to make our own decision.
This is just categorically rejected by Paul who taught that our salvation, "is not of him that willeth." (Romans 9:16) That statement and others like it (John 1:13) exclude man’s will from participatory involvement in the work that brings us eternal salvation, and completely eliminates the possibility of eternal salvation by free will choice. Moreover, if all men do not have the capacity of faith, as II Thessalonians 3:2 clearly teaches, then God has not equipped all men to make such a choice, even if free-will was involved in eternal salvation.
He has given the road map and told us the path to chose that leads to true freedom, but it is up to us to live it out.
If this were true, then none would be saved, because the abject depravity of man in his natural state makes him utterly incapable of seeking God (Romans 3:10-18). "The wicked through the pride of his countenance will not seek after God, God is not in all his thoughts." (Psalm 10:4) It is for this reason that Jesus taught, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3) This truth was as baffling to Nicodemus as it remains to most garden variety evangelicals today.
May God bless our studies and understanding of his word.
- Elder Daniel Samons