Faith and Regeneration
QUESTION
Hey brother, you seem to conflate spiritual life with eternal life. How does regeneration impart eternal life if regeneration precedes faith temporally? If regeneration precedes faith temporally then there is amount of time in-between regeneration and faith that the person is without faith and thus, without understanding or knowledge of God. How could regeneration impart eternal life if it does not impart knowledge of Jesus Christ? John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
ANSWER
In the domain of humanity, the spiritually alive are eternally saved. If you believe there is a distinction between the two please describe it clearly and provide the scriptural basis for that position.
How does regeneration impart eternal life if regeneration precedes faith temporally?
Because the exercise of faith is an ex post facto (after the fact) evidence of the life given. The cry of faith does not sound out until the newborn child of God has been delivered into this world. His state of life precedes the moment when he began to use the capacity of crying he previously possessed. This arises as a matter of systematic necessity from the scriptures. Faith does not come before regeneration because of the well founded doctrine of total depravity, that is, the fact that man is dead in trespasses and in sins prior to his quickening (Ephesians 2:1, Romans 3:10-18). The exercise of faith is always subsequent to the impartation of spiritual life because the verb tenses (John 5:24, I John 5:1) and common observation affirm that life always precedes action.
If regeneration precedes faith temporally then there is amount of time in-between regeneration and faith that the person is without faith
There is an amount of time in-between regeneration and faith, provided we are talking about the EXERCISE OF FAITH, as in evangelical belief in the true gospel. That is because, once again, life always precedes action. However, the bible not only speaks of the EXERCISE OF FAITH but also the CAPACITY OF FAITH. There is a distinction between having faith as a CAPACITY ("He that hath ears to hear" - Matthew 11:15a) and EXERCISING that faith toward gospel truth ("let him hear" - Matthew 11:15b). It is true that the CAPACITY OF FAITH (the ears to hear) is imparted at the very moment of regeneration, but its subsequent EXERCISE toward gospel revelation always lags behind. Peter in Matthew 16:16 is a good example. He clearly has the capacity of faith at that time as evidenced by his belief that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God. He is also EXERCISING that faith in his good profession. But when Jesus preaches his crucifixion and resurrection to him, he does not believe it (v21-23) - he does not EXERCISE the CAPACITY OF FAITH he possesses by believing this fundamental gospel truth, even though Jesus preached it directly to him. Thus there is a distinction between the CAPACITY OF FAITH which all regenerate people possess in equal measure (Romans 12:3) and the EXERCISE OF FAITH which regenerate people exhibit with wide variety ranging from extreme obedience and faithfulness (Daniel) to seemingly no obedience or faithfulness at all (Lot). This varies across a wide range of revelation from total gospel knowledge in the church at Corinth (I Corinthians 15:1-4) to types and shadows in the case of Job (Job 9:2) to literally nothing at all for Rachel's Children (Jeremiah 31:15-17, Matthew 2:16-18).
and thus, without understanding or knowledge of God.
I would not say that the regenerate are utterly "without understanding or knowledge of God." They have the capacity of faith which, at a minimum, is the belief that God exists and is the rewarder of those who diligently seek him (Hebrews 11:6). What's more they fear God and this is the beginning of all spiritual knowledge (Proverbs 1:7). That fear of God is not taught by the instruction of men but is inherent to all of those who are regenerate (Romans 3:18). So making the statement that a regenerate person, who has not exercise evangelical faith in the gospel, is "without understanding or knowledge of God" is an inaccurate depiction of the regenerate.
How could regeneration impart eternal life if it does not impart knowledge of Jesus Christ?
It does impart a "knowledge of Jesus Christ", just not to the explicit degree that you seem to imply by that phrase. Jesus is God. It imparts the belief that the true and living God is real and exists (Hebrews 11:6). That is some measure of knowledge about Jesus, though it is admittedly not knowing him by name. I suspect you "knew" your father long before you knew his name. Would you deny that a child has some knowledge of their parents long before they ever understand enough of language to be able to say "Da da"? What's more, regeneration imparts a fear of God. That is the recognition of God's power and holiness and of man's own sinfulness. Does regeneration impart the name of Jesus Christ to all of the regenerate? No. Not at all. None of the OT saints knew the explicit name of Jesus Christ as taught in the New Testament. Nevertheless, “a rose by any other name...” You see my point? Does regeneration impart an explicit understanding of NT gospel mechanics whereby Christ put one's sins away? No. It doesn't do that either. The affirmation of gospel truth is a function of proper instruction in the gospel. Look back to Peter again in Matthew 16:16-17 - he is a regenerate man, who DOES NOT understand or believe the gospel even though Jesus Christ just preached it to him in the power of the Spirit (v21-23). That observation establishes beyond any reasonable dispute that explicit NT gospel knowledge is a separate and distinct matter from regeneration .
John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
Try this: define what you think is meant by "know" in that text and then see if it applies to Job, Abijah, and David's infant son who died in infancy. If it does not then you're admitting that this "knowledge" is NOT possessed by all of God's regenerate people and your objection fails. If it does, then you have a proper definition of what is intended by "knowing" but that definition will have to be far less than "explicit gospel knowledge of the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ at Calvary whereby the sins of God's people were put away." Simply put, the "knowing" in view here is familial and vital, not academic and comprehensive. Indeed, if it is not, then there is no way to reconcile it with the testimony of the OT saints who did not know the details regarding the salvation in Jesus Christ (Hebrews 11, Ephesians 3:5).
QUESTION
Okay, fair enough. Don't you think the OT jews knew about Jesus though? Not just about God in general but about the second person of the Trinity. It seems like it was revealed to them since the beginning. I see what you're saying about the OT saints and that's a good argument. Now, I guess the only thing left needed is for a PB to demonstrate their view consistent with Romans 3-5 and to show where the Bible equates regeneration with eternal life ;)
ANSWER
Okay, fair enough. Don't you think the OT Jews knew about Jesus though?
That depends on what you intend by “knowing about Jesus.” It is certain that they did not “know about Jesus” in an explicit NT gospel sense. They did not know the name “Jesus” nor did they speak of a coming “Jesus.” Some of them knew something of a coming Messiah (or Christ) and it is certain that many OT prophecies design his covenantal work of salvation and that some of God’s people in the OT had access to these writings. It seems that even those with access had a poor understanding of how these OT allusions to Christ would actually be fulfilled in time. Many of them believed that the Messiah would be more akin to King David, a political leader of the nation of Israel who would restore and unify the kingdom in a temporal sense. They did not understand the core gospel dimensions of Christ’s suffering on a Roman cross, his burial and resurrection, though they had depictions of such in the OT law service. They did not understand the justifying transaction that would come to pass at Calvary which is the core truth proclaimed in the gospel (Job 9:2).
So, I believe it is very difficult to sustain that the OT Jews, or more broadly those in OT times, “knew Jesus” in a meaningful, academic, doctrinal sense. Unless you are more specific about what you intend by “knowing Jesus,” your question is prone to provoking knee-jerk answers based on church traditions rather than sober and sound responses from the word of God. I say that not as a criticism but as an observation of the confusing equivocation embedded in the question.
Not just about God in general but about the second person of the Trinity. It seems like it was revealed to them since the beginning.
A couple of things here. 1) Many of those in the OT never even possessed a bible. We must resist the urge to project our knowledge of biblical truth back upon people who never possessed a bible. 2) Of those who did have the bible (Israel) they did not possess a PERSONAL COPY. Right away, this would seem to do a lot of damage to the idea of what people KNEW back then.
Consider this exercise: What would do you think are the three most clear verses in the OT that support the concept of the Trinity? What do they specifically state about the “second person” thereof? Try to consider this objectively: If you did not have NT knowledge about Jesus Christ and his saving work, do you honestly believe that you would have looked at those verses (assuming you ever had access to reading them or hearing them read) and emerged with a clear NT picture of Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection for the sins of his people, and with an orthodox understanding of the Trinity? I believe the only possible answer to that question is a resounding, “No.” This underscores my previous point that the OT saints did not “know about Jesus” in anything that remotely approaches an orthodox NT gospel understanding of the person and work of Christ.
I see what you're saying about the OT saints and that's a good argument. Now, I guess the only thing left needed is for a Primitive Baptist to demonstrate their view consistent with Romans 3-5 and to show where the Bible equates regeneration with eternal life ;)
I believe our view of justification is consistent with Romans 3-5 because any time you’re talking about “faith” you’re talking about man’s experience of God’s grace and our experience of truth is always a lagging indicator of a pre-existing truth. David’s BELIEF that he was the beneficiary of an “everlasting covenant” that was “ordered in all things and sure” did not establish or ratify the covenant, but was a lagging indicator of a covenant that long predated his existence or recognition thereof. Our BELIEF that Jesus Christ put our sins away does not justify us. The fact that Jesus Christ put our sins away justifies us. Our BELIEVING it merely makes it an experimental reality in our lives and ensures our belief is aligned with the pre-existing truth.
That said, I recognize that this is a difficult concept for many people to grasp. It requires that one reconcile many different scriptures, with seemingly contradictory testimonies, along with a fair amount of abstraction in order to see the distinction between TRUTH and BELIEF OF THE TRUTH. The “plain meaning” hermeneutic that is so en vogue among evangelicals today is ever-inclined to accept a simple-uncomplicated answer in favor of a more-complex, biblically accurate answer. When one’s doctrine rests entirely on “simple explanations” we can be certain that some portion of it is wrong, because Peter freely admits that biblical truth involves “some things hard to be understood.” (II Peter 3:16) I am convinced that the topic of justification is among those “things” that Peter had in mind.
As far showing where the bible equates regeneration with eternal life, the apostle Paul says, “But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy HE SAVED US, BY THE WASHING OF REGENERATION, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;” (Titus 3:4-6) This verse clearly equates regeneration with eternal salvation in a way that is impossible to refute, or so it seems to me.
God bless and thanks for the good thoughts and profitable discussion.
- Elder Daniel Samons